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An AnandTech Round Table with ASUS: 10 Years of the Republic of Gamers

An AnandTech Round Table with ASUS: 10 Years of the Republic of Gamers

Earlier this year before CES 2016, we approached ASUS with an idea: as the Republic of Gamers brand is now in its 10th year of operation, we wanted to get together and discuss the feeling and utility of ROG a decade on, record it, have a question and answer session from our readers, and publish the video. The Republic of Gamers brand from ASUS has been difficult to ignore, both from an engineering perspective when it comes to motherboards and graphics cards, but also the origin story, integration with users, and the expansion out to many different product lines. I felt it was important to hear from the source, and see what makes the mind tick of some of the integral cogs behind the ROG experience.

For long time AnandTech readers, you will know that very few people in this industry stay in one position – in recent times, Dustin has moved to Corsair, Vivek now works with Razer, and Anand works at Apple. I started as Senior Motherboard Editor back in 2011, when my predecessor Rajinder Gill took a position within ASUS’ technical team. His predecessor, Gary Key, is also with ASUS and currently sits as Director of Marketing for ASUS USA.

Vivian Lien

Chief Marketing Officer, ASUS USA

ASUS Marketing
from 2006/2007

Gary Key

Director of Marketing, ASUS USA

AnandTech Motherboard Senior Editor 2005-2008

Rajinder ‘Raja’ Gill

Technical PR Manager, ASUS USA

AnandTech Motherboard Senior Editor 2008-2010

Ian Cutress

10 Years of ROG Round Table Chair

Current AnandTech Motherboard Senior Editor from 2011

At the time when Gary, Raja and Kris Boughton (another former motherboard editor for AnandTech) were probing the original models, Vivian was one of their direct ASUS contacts, ensuring that direct line of communication and filling them in on the details. Then when Gary joined ASUS, Raja had Gary as his main contact, and so on, meaning that for this discussion we have the ASUS-AnandTech contact line right from the initial ROG launch.

Between the AnandTech motherboard reviewing staff, we have covered the Republic of Gamers brand from its inception, with both Gary and Raja now involved in various levels with members of the team that designs, develops, tests and pushes the ROG ecosystem, then managing the perception of it as part of the ASUS brand within North America.

If we look back at AnandTech’s content history, the deep dives from both Gary and Raja into those products are still insights into motherboard design and complexity. They are certainly worth a read several years on, along with Kris Boughton’s reviews, who worked alongside Gary in 07/08. For those interested, here’s every ROG motherboard we’ve ever tested:

07-2007: ASUS ROG at Computex – Gary Key
11-2007: Maximus Formula Review – Rajinder Gill
12-2007: Maximus Extreme Review – Rajinder Gill
01-2008: Rampage Formula Review – Kris Boughton
03-2008: Striker II Formula Review – Rajinder Gill
04-2008: Striker II Extreme Review – Kris Boughton
10-2008: Rampage II Extreme Review – Gary Key
11-2009: Maximus III Formula Review – Rajinder Gill
04-2010: Maximus III Extreme Review – Rajinder Gill
07-2010: Rampage III Extreme Review – Rajinder Gill
04-2012: Crosshair V Formula Review – Ian Cutress
08-2012: Rampage IV Gene, Formula and Extreme Review – Ian Cutress
03-2013: Maximus V Formula Review – Ian Cutress
05-2013: Maximus V Gene Review – Ian Cutress
11-2013: Maximus VI Impact Review – Ian Cutress
01-2014: Rampage IV Black Edition Review – Ian Cutress
12-2014: Maximus VII Impact Review – Ian Cutress
06-2015: Rampage V Extreme Review – Ian Cutress
12-2015: Maximus VIII Impact Review – Ian Cutress

You may remember we interviewed Dr Albert Chang, Senior Division Director of ASUS Motherboard Business Unit Research and Development back in 2014 about the general path for motherboard design, and how the ROG team is designed to be that skunkworks element of engineering. Raja assists ROG’s internal impromptu extreme overclocking events with top overclockers as well as community management, so we picked his brains on how design ideas from the forums and events assist product design.

As a result of the ASUS ROG push, we end up meeting with ASUS frequently at events (much like other companies), but a round table was a great chance to get a decade of AnandTech Senior Motherboard Editors in front of the camera with Vivien Lien, the CMO of ASUS USA who was part of the team that supplied the first set of ROG motherboards we tested to AnandTech. We also posted an open Q&A pipeline, inviting questions from readers. I took the best part of a dozen of those questions for the round table.

Audio only download: MP3

Timestamps MM:SS

00:06 – Intro
02:50 – Starting with the Rampage Extreme
04:20 – How to begin a gaming focused brand
05:55 – Several years for ROG profitability, the changing nature of Gaming
07:25 – Engineering and Overclocking
09:50 – The X79 motherboard that was never sold, but helped future platforms
13:30 – Evolution of the OC Panel
14:45 – Custom hardware development and implementation
16:15 – Republic of Gamers in 2006/07: Teething Issues
18:35 – ASUS sends an engineer to Gary’s house to fix it             
19:45 – Translating an issue, that needs an ASUS engineer to fix, into feedback for the future
22:13 – ROG Forums and ASUS’ official presence on other major forums for support/feedback
23:25 – Start of Q&A
24:00 – Q1 from zodiacfml: Make an ASUS ROG Smartphone!
25:35 – Q2 from jjj: What makes ROG worth the cost?
31:50 – Q3 from jasonelmore: Is $500 too much for a Z170 motherboard?
34:05 – Q4 from 7amood: Any future plans for waterproofing?
34:45 – Q5 from dreamer77dd: Will we see a dual socket ROG platform?
36:03 – Q6 from boeush: Will ASUS compete with MSI’s GT80?
37:35 – Q7 from boeush: Is there demand for larger laptops (18”+) or 16:10 screens?
38:55 – Q8 from iamkyle: Will we see customizable NICs/codecs?
41:45 – Q9 from Ian: Is there 10GBase-T on the brain?
43:46 – Q10 from Shadow7037932: How does ASUS evolve when an i7 920 still offers good performance?
45:40 – Outro
46:02 – FIN

Seagate Announces PCIe x16 SSD Capable Of 10GB/s

Seagate Announces PCIe x16 SSD Capable Of 10GB/s

At the Open Compute Project Summit this week in San Jose, Seagate will show off a pair of upcoming enterprise NVMe SSDs with impressive throughput specifications. The drives will have PCIe x16 and x8 interfaces and provide maximum throughput of 10GB/s and 6.7GB/s respectively. Seagate has provided few details so far, but it’s safe to say those numbers are peak sequential read speeds.

The big question is what controllers are used in these drives. Most NVMe SSD controllers support at most 4 PCIe lanes, with the notable exceptions being PMC-Sierra’s 8-lane controllers. Seagate does have an internal development team with SandForce, but it’s highly unlikely they’ve been able to develop such a large controller so soon. And these new Seagate SSDs are probably not based on unannounced third-party controllers.

This means the 16-lane SSD from Seagate is almost certainly a multi-controller solution with an on-board PCIe switch, which is now common for top of the line enterprise PCIe SSDs. A 10GB/s read speed suggests that the 16-lane drive is most likely based on four of Seagate’s Nytro XM1440 M.2 SSDs, which advertise 2.5GB/s read speed for capacities of at least 800GB and use a Marvell controller. Seagate’s blog shows CAD renderings that seem consistent with a layout of four Nytro XM1440 M.2 drives on one card, but the requisite PCIe switch chip isn’t shown. (EDIT: Photographs of the board have surfaced showing that it does passively route the PCIe lanes from the x16 connector to the M.2 slots without a PCIe switch chip. This may prevent all four drives from being used on platforms like Intel’s Xeon E3 where the 16 PCIe lanes can only be divided into x8+x8 or x8+x4+x4 configurations.)

Seagate claims that the 10GB/s speed of the 16-lane drive is 4GB/s faster than any competing drive. If Seagate’s new drive is a single-controller solution then that’s a fair comparison and an impressive accomplishment, but there are already multi-drive products on the market offering RAID0 speeds well in excess of 6GB/s. HP’s Z Turbo Drive Quad Pro is a PCIe x16 card that provides connectivity and cooling for up to four M.2 PCIe SSDs. When ordered as part of a workstation it can be configured with four Samsung SM951 SSDs to provide an advertised 9GB/s sequential read speed, though when sold separately it only comes populated with two M.2 SSDs.

Meanwhile the 8-lane drive is probably not based on two 4-lane controllers, despite it being the most obvious solution. Most products based on a single controller from Intel, Samsung, Marvell or Phison with a PCIe 3.0 x4 link advertise maximum read speeds of 2.2–2.8GB/s, so providing 6.7GB/s from just two controllers would require 20% higher performance than any PCIe 3.0 x4 NVMe controller has attained. Instead, the PCIe x8 SSD Seagate is announcing is probably another four Marvell controller design that is limited in sequential speeds by the overhead of the drive’s PCIe switch and the upstream PCIe link. The 1M IOPS claimed for the 8-lane drive is slightly higher than four times the rating for a single XM1440, but some capacities of the 2.5″ XF1440 offer enough IOPS. The thermal constraints of the M.2 form factor compared to 2.5″ drives and add-in cards with large heatsinks account for the discrepancy in IOPS rating.  According to Seagate the 8-lane drive will offer some cost and power savings over the 16-lane drive, and it’s not hard to imagine that it could also allow servers to a larger total capacity for the same number of PCIe lanes.

Seagate’s blog shows a rendering of the 8-lane card with the same heatsink layout as their Nytro XP series flash accelerator cards that use a RAID of SandForce SATA controllers to provide up to 4GB/s sequential read speeds. There’s a good chance this is just a placeholder illustration, as Seagate says the 8-lane drive is still being finalized.

Both drives are intended for the Open Compute Project (OCP) hardware ecosystem founded by Facebook and now also supported by a variety of major companies in cloud computing, telecom, networking, and finance. The Open Compute Project focuses on datacenter hardware and infrastructure, with members contributing specifications and designs that are more detailed than industry standards like the ATX form factor. Seagate says their new drives will comply with OCP specifications, but the specific standards haven’t been identified. Potentially relevant standards include a specification for thermal monitoring of PCIe add-in cards and a specification for M.2 SSDs that sets standards for things like minimum performance, the conditions under which thermal throttling is permitted, maximum power consumption and mandatory eDrive encryption support.

Based on the assumption that both drives are rougly equivalent to four Nytro XM1440 drives plus a PCIe switch chip, peak power consumption will probably be at least 29W for the 8-lane drive and could be nearly 40W for the 16-lane drive.

Seagate describes the PCIe x16 drive as production-ready but the 8-lane drive is still being finalized. Samples of each have been made available to Seagate’s customers and the full product launch is planned for summer of 2016. Capacities have not been announced but are likely to start at 3.2TB or 3.84TB for the highest-performing models.

Seagate Announces PCIe x16 SSD Capable Of 10GB/s

Seagate Announces PCIe x16 SSD Capable Of 10GB/s

At the Open Compute Project Summit this week in San Jose, Seagate will show off a pair of upcoming enterprise NVMe SSDs with impressive throughput specifications. The drives will have PCIe x16 and x8 interfaces and provide maximum throughput of 10GB/s and 6.7GB/s respectively. Seagate has provided few details so far, but it’s safe to say those numbers are peak sequential read speeds.

The big question is what controllers are used in these drives. Most NVMe SSD controllers support at most 4 PCIe lanes, with the notable exceptions being PMC-Sierra’s 8-lane controllers. Seagate does have an internal development team with SandForce, but it’s highly unlikely they’ve been able to develop such a large controller so soon. And these new Seagate SSDs are probably not based on unannounced third-party controllers.

This means the 16-lane SSD from Seagate is almost certainly a multi-controller solution with an on-board PCIe switch, which is now common for top of the line enterprise PCIe SSDs. A 10GB/s read speed suggests that the 16-lane drive is most likely based on four of Seagate’s Nytro XM1440 M.2 SSDs, which advertise 2.5GB/s read speed for capacities of at least 800GB and use a Marvell controller. Seagate’s blog shows CAD renderings that seem consistent with a layout of four Nytro XM1440 M.2 drives on one card, but the requisite PCIe switch chip isn’t shown. (EDIT: Photographs of the board have surfaced showing that it does passively route the PCIe lanes from the x16 connector to the M.2 slots without a PCIe switch chip. This may prevent all four drives from being used on platforms like Intel’s Xeon E3 where the 16 PCIe lanes can only be divided into x8+x8 or x8+x4+x4 configurations.)

Seagate claims that the 10GB/s speed of the 16-lane drive is 4GB/s faster than any competing drive. If Seagate’s new drive is a single-controller solution then that’s a fair comparison and an impressive accomplishment, but there are already multi-drive products on the market offering RAID0 speeds well in excess of 6GB/s. HP’s Z Turbo Drive Quad Pro is a PCIe x16 card that provides connectivity and cooling for up to four M.2 PCIe SSDs. When ordered as part of a workstation it can be configured with four Samsung SM951 SSDs to provide an advertised 9GB/s sequential read speed, though when sold separately it only comes populated with two M.2 SSDs.

Meanwhile the 8-lane drive is probably not based on two 4-lane controllers, despite it being the most obvious solution. Most products based on a single controller from Intel, Samsung, Marvell or Phison with a PCIe 3.0 x4 link advertise maximum read speeds of 2.2–2.8GB/s, so providing 6.7GB/s from just two controllers would require 20% higher performance than any PCIe 3.0 x4 NVMe controller has attained. Instead, the PCIe x8 SSD Seagate is announcing is probably another four Marvell controller design that is limited in sequential speeds by the overhead of the drive’s PCIe switch and the upstream PCIe link. The 1M IOPS claimed for the 8-lane drive is slightly higher than four times the rating for a single XM1440, but some capacities of the 2.5″ XF1440 offer enough IOPS. The thermal constraints of the M.2 form factor compared to 2.5″ drives and add-in cards with large heatsinks account for the discrepancy in IOPS rating.  According to Seagate the 8-lane drive will offer some cost and power savings over the 16-lane drive, and it’s not hard to imagine that it could also allow servers to a larger total capacity for the same number of PCIe lanes.

Seagate’s blog shows a rendering of the 8-lane card with the same heatsink layout as their Nytro XP series flash accelerator cards that use a RAID of SandForce SATA controllers to provide up to 4GB/s sequential read speeds. There’s a good chance this is just a placeholder illustration, as Seagate says the 8-lane drive is still being finalized.

Both drives are intended for the Open Compute Project (OCP) hardware ecosystem founded by Facebook and now also supported by a variety of major companies in cloud computing, telecom, networking, and finance. The Open Compute Project focuses on datacenter hardware and infrastructure, with members contributing specifications and designs that are more detailed than industry standards like the ATX form factor. Seagate says their new drives will comply with OCP specifications, but the specific standards haven’t been identified. Potentially relevant standards include a specification for thermal monitoring of PCIe add-in cards and a specification for M.2 SSDs that sets standards for things like minimum performance, the conditions under which thermal throttling is permitted, maximum power consumption and mandatory eDrive encryption support.

Based on the assumption that both drives are rougly equivalent to four Nytro XM1440 drives plus a PCIe switch chip, peak power consumption will probably be at least 29W for the 8-lane drive and could be nearly 40W for the 16-lane drive.

Seagate describes the PCIe x16 drive as production-ready but the 8-lane drive is still being finalized. Samples of each have been made available to Seagate’s customers and the full product launch is planned for summer of 2016. Capacities have not been announced but are likely to start at 3.2TB or 3.84TB for the highest-performing models.

The Samsung Galaxy S7 & S7 Edge Review, Part 1

For some time now, Samsung has been the dominant player in the Android space, especially at the high end of the market. From the Galaxy S2 onwards, Samsung has been able to ride the wave of the smartphone industry’s growth without much disruptio…

The Samsung Galaxy S7 & S7 Edge Review, Part 1

For some time now, Samsung has been the dominant player in the Android space, especially at the high end of the market. From the Galaxy S2 onwards, Samsung has been able to ride the wave of the smartphone industry’s growth without much disruptio…